It was a night to remember: The On Something team recently headed to Massachusetts for our first-ever live episode. Ann traded notes on legalization with three reporters from the Boston Globe’s cannabis team. The Globe’s Naomi Martin, Dan Adams and Felicia Gans want to know about dispensaries and youth use in Colorado, and Ann asks why it’s taking so long to open more than a handful of dispensaries in Boston.
Transcript
Ann Marie Awad:
From Colorado public radio and PRX. This is On Something
Ann Marie Awad:
Is this thing on? Hello? Hello? Yes, it's me. Hi, I'm Ann Marie Awad and you are listening to On Something but kind of a unique episode of On Something. So bear in mind while you listen to this. We here at On Something are hard at work on season two and as an act of goodwill and gratitude, we have a little something for you. This bonus live episode. Our very, very first of both of those things of like a bonus episode and a live episode and it's a little different from our typical episodes. The On Something crew dropped into Boston recently to hear how Massachusetts is handling legalization less than a year after it's taken effect. And we talked about all kinds of issues they've been facing and we compared them to Colorado. That's where On Something is based. We've had legal recreational weed for more than five years now. So today a conversation with the cannabis reporting team at the Boston Globe. Three reporters covering newly legal weed in Massachusetts.
Ann Marie Awad:
You'll hear from Dan Adams, he used to cover the alcohol industry and other regulated businesses, and now he writes the Globe's This Week in Weed newsletter. You'll hear from Naomi Martin who previously covered crime and politics in Louisiana and Texas and Felicia Gans. She's a digital producer and reporter at the Globe who focuses on marijuana. From the very beginning of this conversation, we all realized we had a lot in common, but Naomi and I had one thing in particular in common.
Ann Marie Awad:
Good evening, everybody. I have to ask this, but my mom is in the audience tonight.
Naomi Martin:
Mine is too!
Ann Marie Awad:
All right, so great question to start with. How do you guys explain what you do to your parents?
Naomi Martin:
Um, my parents initially were just like thrilled that I was coming back to Boston from the South and they were like, whatever you're going to do, just we're glad you're coming back. Um, but over time they've gotten really excited about it. I'm like, at first they weren't thrilled about the topic, but over time they've gotten really excited. My mom actually keeps like a note in her phone of like all her story ideas for me. She's a juvenile criminal attorney and so she has tons of ideas related to those aspects that she sees every day. So it's exciting.
Ann Marie Awad:
Okay. Since your mom is here and also that's great that she keeps a note in her phone. Can we just give mom a hand? That's awesome.
Naomi Martin:
She has great ideas too. Thank you.
Felicia Gans:
You, um, you explained it to them the way you explain it to any reader that might not be super involved in cannabis world prior to reading our stories. You just kind of start from the beginning. You figure out where they're at. Um, and you explain the basics at their level and whatever that means. So you kind of pick up on their personality. If they're a parent that might really like jokes, you make jokes. Um, but if there's someone that will appreciate the seriousness of the industry, you kind of go with that angle. Very cool.
Dan Adams:
Uh, my parents were pretty cool with it. They were, um, sort of seventies progressive's although …
Ann Marie Awad:
They were like, can you get us some weed?
Dan Adams:
No. My dad was in a band in college, but his nickname in the band was Clean Living Bob. So, but he has since tried some CBD for a sore shoulder and reported positive results and we'll take the wins we can get.
Ann Marie Awad:
Oh is the gateway drug for the parents now is the CBD for the bad back or something? Yeah.
Dan Adams:
Where's, where's the ad with the egg in a frying pan with the CBD.
Naomi Martin:
Yeah. And what about your mom, Ann?
Ann Marie Awad:
Oh man. Mom, do you want to come up here and talk into the mic? No, I right before I kind of took on this podcast, I was a little bit general assignment and before I was an education reporter, um, and so my, my mom in the beginning was always like, can't you make a podcast about education? Like they have schools in Colorado. Poor mom.
Ann Marie Awad:
So one of Colorado's earliest challenges with legalization was edibles. Now Maureen Dowd, who's a columnist for the New York Times, sort of made us famous for this. She came to Denver the first year that we had legal recreational sales. And so Maureen Dowd tried a pot candy bar in her hotel room and she got so high, she thought she had almost died. And then she wrote a column for the New York Times about it. Um, so Maureen kind of became our canary in the coal mine, right. She wrote about how there was no instructions on the label of that candy bar or there wasn't a serving size. And then after that we like regulated the crap out of edibles. Um, so Dan, I'm wondering, are there, are there similar fears here about edibles?
Dan Adams:
Definitely. And I think, you know, anyone who's a marijuana consumer has probably had that sort of rookie cookie experience. The classic thing that someone who's new to marijuana does, right? Like you have a edible and you're like, is it working? I don't know. And then 45 minutes later you're like, you know, I'm kind of hungry and there's more edibles on the counter and then, you know, an hour later you're in low earth orbit. Um, so yes, we do have a lot of regulations around edibles like precisely because of sort of the Maureen Dowd scenario. So for, for one thing, uh, our edibles are all divided into five milligrams of THC servings. And, uh, you know, the, the, the labels are covered in warnings, contains multiple servings. Don't use this if you're pregnant, don't use this if you're driving, maybe just don't use this at all.
Dan Adams:
I mean, there's science on this and the question is how, how many warnings do you want on a label? Cause you want it to be effective. You want people to actually read it. If it's a, if it's a, you know, Walgreens, receipt of disclaimers, 10 miles long people would …
Ann Marie Awad:
Don't you mean CVS receipt?
Dan Adams:
But, uh, you, you don't want to have so many warnings that people just habitually disregard them because you actually can't, you know, we, I think as a team we've been at pains to be very accurate about what the risks are and are not about marijuana. We want to be very clear eyed about that. We don't want to be engaged in fear-mongering. Um, nor do we want to gloss over the actual risks. And the edibles, they present an actual risk. I mean, you may not die. Your heart might not stop, but you could become extremely uncomfortable if you have too many edibles. It could be extremely dangerous for you to be driving if you become that disoriented. So it is important that they have clear, uh, dosing that they have clear labels. But I think the conversation now is do we dial back some of that laundry list of warnings and focus on the ones that are really important so consumers can make good choices.
Ann Marie Awad:
In Colorado, we've had an issue with, uh, an increase in ER visits for children when it comes to edibles. So Naomi, I'm wondering if you guys have seen things like that here, a lot more people taking things accidentally or taking more than they meant to.
Naomi Martin:
Yeah, we have, um, we saw like a, a small number, but it's still alarming, um, of an increase, uh, in the last few years of children under five accidentally, you know, eating their parents or caretakers, um, edible and, and so we've seen a spike in, um, poison control calls, which is not good. Um, I think one of the things that, you know, people need to be aware of is just like how easily it can happen. Have you guys figured out a way of handling that? I know you guys are five years ahead of us, so I'm curious whether Colorado does it differently?
Ann Marie Awad:
Everything is a childproofed to death.
Ann Marie Awad:
Yeah. It's like everything is in an individual wrapper and then the container itself has to be childproof and then when it leaves the dispensary, it's got to go in a childproof bag and then there's labels all over in every individual piece of edible marijuana. It's, I mean, I wasn't kidding when I said we regulate the crap out of it.
Naomi Martin:
It's so scary because it's like if, if a kid sees a chocolate bar, like they, they're not going to know that it could make them sick.
Ann Marie Awad:
Kids don't always know what childproofing is.
Naomi Martin:
I just think it's a challenge for parents, I think to lock it up. But they don't think of it as like a gun that they need to lock it up. They think of it as just, you know, their food or whatever. And so I think that's part of it, that can be a challenge.
Felicia Gans:
I'm curious also, have there been concerns in Colorado about the sustainability of having that much packaging? Cause that's, that's something that comes up here is we want to make it as childproof as possible, but when you have packages on packages on packages and you, you know, you're unraveling five different pieces of plastic that you're about to throw away to get to your like one little gummy at the bottom of it all. It's just not sustainable at all. I mean is that something that comes up?
Dan Adams:
This question brought to you by the Pacific Ocean.
Ann Marie Awad:
No, that's a great question actually. Because right now in the state regulations, really the biggest requirement for packaging is that it's gotta be childproof and then there's no other requirement as far as materials, recyclability. Recyclers in Colorado have the discretion whether or not they want to take containers that have touched pot. A lot of times when they have, they don't, they just throw them out. So the way that it stands right now is there's kind of no incentive to do it. There are people in the industry that are sort of concerned about this and want to make sustainable packaging, but it is something usually that they do and pass the expense onto the customer. So like one of the places that I've been going to recently they started packaging all of their weed in glass jars which are nice and beautiful but not childproof. And also they cost extra, they charge you like an extra few bucks if you buy weed because it comes in a nicer container. So I think it's something that the industry is trying to figure out, but state regulators are definitely a lot more concerned with whether or not a thing is childproof.
Naomi Martin:
It would be nice if we could do like bulk like you know when you go to Whole Foods and you put your quinoa …
Ann Marie Awad:
Put all my weed in a bag, that would be great.
Naomi Martin:
Or you could bring your own like glass jar, you know, and not have to reuse. I dunno, I'm just making up stuff.
Dan Adams:
Where are we on hemp packaging?
Ann Marie Awad:
There is, I think there's one dispensary in my neighborhood actually that's looking into that. But again, it's really always into industry driven.
Dan Adams:
Apparently you can make anything out of hemp.
Ann Marie Awad:
Apparently you can.
Dan Adams:
And CBD can cure any disease.
Ann Marie Awad:
Exactly. They can't, please. Listen to On Something. We did a whole episode about it. Um, so this actually dovetails with another like really early on concern for Colorado, which was an increase in children using marijuana. And it was something I think when people voted for legalization, people were really worried about but it never ended up materializing. And this is according to data that the state collects actually as part of legalization every year they're supposed to collect a certain type of stats. So Naomi, I'm wondering like how much is that youth use of concern here and what are regulators doing about it?
Naomi Martin:
Oh, it's a huge concern here. I mean, I think that's probably one of the number one, um, arguments by opponents of legalization. That it's sending the wrong message to the kids. Um, you know, obviously proponents argue that alcohol is legal too, and we found a way to talk to kids about that. Um, but you know, so we've, we, it's obviously a little too early here to know what's happened so far in Massachusetts since legalization occurred, but over the last 10 years we have seen a lowering of youth marijuana use. Um, and so it'll be interesting to see whether that continues or whether that changes. Um, some of the things that regulators are doing here is, you know, the childproof packaging, you have to be 21 to enter the dispensaries and they check your ID like 50 times. Um, there's also, there's also, you know, an intense seed to sale tracking system so that people can't like be diverting it to the black market. But I will say one thing that I feel like is, is sort of left out of this conversation a lot of the time is how many kids, you know, really sick kids are benefiting from medical cannabis. I've talked to a pediatrician here who was telling me that he has patients who have severe autism where their families couldn't, you know, be functional and now they are, or a kid who, or a girl who was super anxious and couldn't go to school and now is able to, and so I think, you know, when we talk about child use, it's also important to recognize that it is like a very nuanced, complicated topic. Um, I met one girl who was able to graduate high school, but she, and so she's functioning to a certain level. She has a job. But she does have to smoke three blunts a day and you know, that's as low as she's been able to like reduce her, her usage. And so, you know, it's just a challenge I think that schools are dealing with. And, um, groups that deal with kids to try to figure out how to get them to reduce their use in a way that is realistic and not just like shunning them so that all they do is smoke weed all day. But at the same time getting them to be productive.
Ann Marie Awad:
Hi, it's me again with a quick note and an update. So when Colorado legalized, there was concern that use among young people was going to go up. And as it turns out, it has decreased. But now Colorado has the highest youth vaping rates in the country and people have been asking is there a link to marijuana legalization? Well, there's no proven link, but a lot of people worry that because of legalization, vaping is much more visible. A lot of these devices can be used for either tobacco or marijuana and no one else around you could tell what you're consuming. When we recorded this conversation in October, Massachusetts actually had a far reaching ban on vaping on tobacco and cannabis. It was the only one in the country. And since then the ban has been lifted. But as you might imagine at this time, the Globe's cannabis team was doing a lot of reporting on it. So anyways, back to Naomi.
Naomi Martin:
So I'm sure you all have heard of the mysterious vaping related lung illnesses that killed I think 26 people now. And like 1300 people have been severely injured with bad breathing problems. And Governor Charlie Baker, took the extreme step of banning all vapes, both nicotine and marijuana. Um, so that's been a huge deal here. Uh, we've seen people, like we've talked, Dan and I had talked to a bunch of consumers last week who, um, a lot of former smokers who had been vaping and turned back to cigarettes. Um, others who were driving …
Ann Marie Awad:
That's crazy.
Naomi Martin:
I know. And um, others who have turned, who have driven to New Hampshire or Rhode Island for medical marijuana patients, they, they're able to get products in other states sometimes like in Rhode Island or Maine. Um, and then there's a lot of people go to the illicit market, going online, Alibaba and Craigslist and websites. eBay are selling, you know, tons of Juuls and things like that that you can't get in stores here. So I think we're just beginning to see the effects and it'll be really interesting. What are they doing in Colorado?
Ann Marie Awad:
I mean, the biggest way that this has played out has been trying to figure out if there is some sort of link to marijuana legalization.
Dan Adams:
Well, I think it's important to bifurcate this into two problems, right? So one of those problems is the large increase in the number of, you know, youth using nicotine vapes like such as Juuls. And as far as I can tell, that's happened largely independently of anything related to marijuana. It's something that's just become really like faddish in high schools and the devices have become so discreet that they're very easy to sort of smuggle in to using the bathroom and things like that. And I think we should all be worried about that because as much, let's just say for a moment that vapes are safe, um, they may play a role in helping people get off of combustible cigarettes, which we know are deadly and are extremely dangerous. Um, the, the question though is, is a whole new generation of kids getting addicted to nicotine who wouldn't have otherwise smoked because, you know, combustible cigarettes aren't really cool anymore. They're, they're gross. Right? And, uh, I'm sorry, I'm not trying to stigmatize people to smoke, but um, I, they're not cool. And I think in a kids kids or um, you know, kids are using like a, a ton of these and so the vaping ban on one hand is an attempt to, okay, how, how are the high schoolers like getting these nicotine vapes and let's stop that. And that's reasonable, are they being sold by retailers who aren't checking IDs or are they being ordered online where, um, from what I can tell, you know, it's pretty easy to order even from a legitimate source before the, uh, ban, you could kind of put in your mom's driver's license, right? If you could just like take a picture of it in your purse, you could go on there and pretty easily get this stuff shipped to your door. Then totally separately from that, we have all these vaping illnesses that have now killed, um, you know, more than 20 people and have made well over a thousand sick. That's also really serious. As far as we can tell. We don't know the cause of it, but all the signs are pointing to that being from illicit marijuana vapes.
Ann Marie Awad:
Yeah, black market vapes.
Dan Adams:
So to me that's right. And that's a totally separate, almost policy consideration and it's a whole, that's a whole different sort of intellectual universe from the youth nicotine vaping issue. The problem is now these conversations have sort of been smashed together by this ban and I think we're having trouble pulling it apart. And you know, like some, some aspects of the ban are objectively absurd.
Felicia Gans:
So I've been covering this on a national level and kind of keeping track of what's happening in the other States. And the most concerning thing I think for the future of vaping, if vaping turns out to be safe with the right products in there, um, is that it's, it's pitting the nicotine vaping industry against the cannabis vaping industry. When at the end of the day we need to figure out what is making people sick, get rid of that ingredient in vapes if it's possible, and then create a vaping product that actually is safe for people to use. We don't actually …
Dan Adams:
And meanwhile, what about the patients? What about the medical marijuana patients who may rely on that? I mean, not, not every disorder that can be treated with marijuana, you know, is it appropriate to use an edible for? Right? Some people need a more fast acting, um, form of it, whether it's like a fast onset, kind of an anxiety attack or, or like an episode of, of having a seizure or something like that. And to say that it's better somehow for a patient to combust medicine. I mean, just smoke. I mean, um, you know, to smoke flower. You know, it's hard for me to believe that that's healthier for people.
Ann Marie Awad:
I want to shift gears a little bit and ask you about all of the dispensaries in Boston. All none of them. Um, do you guys want to wager a guess at how many we have? Like just in Denver?
Felicia Gans:
Just in Denver? Wow.
Dan Adams:
You've all got that green mile right?
Naomi Martin:
40, 80, 100?
Dan Adams:
1,000?
Ann Marie Awad:
No, we have like, uh, between 150 and 200, something like that. There used to be like people used to love saying this, people used to love, uh, reciting this factoid about, uh, Oh, a Denver has more dispensaries than Starbucks. I'll have you all know that one of our reporters did count and it's wrong or outdated.
Felicia Gans:
Do you want to guess how many we have in the whole state?
Ann Marie Awad:
Oh man. It's like, I looked this up before I met you guys too, but now I can't remember. It's like 30?
Naomi Martin:
Wow. That was optimistic. Wow.
Felicia Gans:
We're at 28 right now. Um, there's only two that are actually even within relative public transportation distance of Boston. I say relative because the Newton one when it's 20 degrees outside, you're not gonna want to walk from there. It's also appointment only. I'm the only one that you can actually walk up to right now and get two from …
Ann Marie Awad:
Who's going to make an appointment to buy their drugs? I'm sorry. I just, that's like, that's like almost the same thing as just having a dealer. Right? Like I thought the attraction of legal weed was that I could go to a store and buy it.
Dan Adams:
Even worse though because you have to be on time.
Ann Marie Awad:
I don't, I don't do well with that.
Felicia Gans:
But it has become really problematic. I mean, the biggest issue obviously right now is access. It's the fact that the majority of people, um, are living in Eastern Massachusetts and can't get to a dispensary without it being an inconvenience.
Naomi Martin:
What has been the effect, do you think of having so many dispensaries in Denver? I mean here it feels very like taboo still. Have you noticed any change in how people like mainstream acceptance of it?
Ann Marie Awad:
So, yeah, so we have a lot of dispensaries in Denver. Um, I definitely do have the ability to leave my house and just go to a store and buy weed when I please. Uh, so I think there's certain things we take for granted. Um, I think that the culture sort of, I guess it's mostly accepted it. I think we have, we live more with like a PSA is probably at this point than you guys do. Like the state invests a lot of money in this fictional bud tender who makes commercials about responsible bud use and the ads on TV saying like, Hey, you know, make sure you put your weed in a locked place away from your kids.
Ann Marie Awad:
Yeah. I'm trying to think about what else. We have these pamphlets for people who come from the airport about like how not to take too much weed.
Dan Adams:
So welcome to Colorado. Don't get too stoned.
Ann Marie Awad:
Don't get too mile high.
Dan Adams:
One thing I'm curious about, and this is something that, you know, we're still trying to calibrate here. How do your regulators balance on one hand, you know, wanting to have marijuana be accessible, convenient and cheap enough that it undermines the illicit market. Whereas we've talked about with the vaping situation, there's more danger, right? There can be flower with pesticides, um, sketchy people. Um, so how do you undermine that market while not incentivizing, on the other hand, consumption, right? Because you, you know, you look at the data from the alcohol industry and basically the more stores there are, the more free they are to advertise. And just the fewer rules, apply to them, the more people in that area drink alcohol. And so you don't want the government in a situation where they're actually like driving or incentivizing cannabis consumption necessarily. Right. Um, so how, how has Colorado struck that balance?
Ann Marie Awad:
So there's been a few different ways. Um, dispensaries can't be too close to a school. That's a big one. A big chunk of the tax money that we get from legal weed goes towards behavioral health programs in schools, drug abuse prevention programs in schools. Obviously the youth use piece is a really big part of it. Um, I think also what's really interesting too is that Colorado regulators basically just copy, pasted the same advertising rules around cigarettes to marijuana. So they can't advertise on TV. They can't be in a lot of print publications. Although we have a publication in Colorado, it's like all dispensary ads. But, so you can't, there can be pot stores everywhere, but they can't advertise all willy nilly. Um, I think a side effect of that is that all of our highways have been adopted by pot businesses. Most of them.
Dan Adams:
We just wrote about that here. And it turns out that, uh, so a lot of these adopt a highway signs that the marijuana companies bought it doesn't look like they're legal because you know, the signs are so small, there's only room for the logo and they didn't put all the like mile long list of disclaimers on it. So now they're going to have to take him down because it doesn't have the sort of asterisk, by the way, don't do this, this, this, this, and this.
Ann Marie Awad:
By the way contains THC. So that's so interesting that you guys have only have like 28 dispensaries because we have like 500 in the state.
Felicia Gans:
You could call it interesting. You could call it sad.
Dan Adams:
When you have that much choice how do you decide among them? Because I literally have two stores to choose from, so, and each of them has like one strain. So it's kind of like if I wanted indica I'm going to go to Garden Remedies and if I want a sativa, I'm going to go to Netta. And that's about it. When, when you actually have choice, what do you sort of make a decision on? Is it price? Is it selection?
Ann Marie Awad:
Are people throwing around the words like cannabis desert here? Cause that's like the first thing that came to my mind. Okay. Um, Hey look, I love a bargain. So I'm mostly going by price and I mean me and my business reporter who used to cover the legal weed industry until I came along, we talk about this all the time that like weed can be so cheap in Colorado that we're not really sure how anybody's making money off of it. I can get an eighth, which will last me a week or two, uh, for 15 bucks at some places.
Naomi Martin:
Wow. Here we have $75 eigths in places.
Ann Marie Awad:
That's inhumane, I'm sorry.
Dan Adams:
For the audience at home, in case the mics didn't pick that up. The entire audience just groaned in agony. $15 eighths?
Felicia Gans:
So we're all moving to Colorado, right?
Ann Marie Awad:
Apparently.
Naomi Martin:
But I will say that one of the impacts of not having any stores in Massachusetts is that the ones that are open have been under so much strain. The one in Brookline is one of the busiest cannabis stores in the country. They have 2500 customers a day when the average is like 120 national average. So their neighbors are not happy. So they have like lines like crazy, people wait in line for hours there, especially on the weekends and um, and the neighbors are really unhappy about it. Even the ones that voted for legalization, there's people peeing, there's people smoking, there's people smoking weed all over their street. Like when they're trying to, you know, get their kids from soccer practice. Um, there's litter, there's people parking all over the place. It's just one of those problems. But one of them, you know, one of the neighbors framed it to me is like when you have a huge crowd of people, there's always like one or two that are going to be bad actors until when you have 2,500 people a day coming there, you know …. Plenty of them are nice, you know, law abiding, respectful people. But there's just those few.
Felicia Gans:
The other issue is inside is once you actually get inside, it's such a factory to no fault of theirs.
Ann Marie Awad:
It's the Apple store in New York.
Felicia Gans:
But worse because the Apple store you get to walk around and play with things. And in this, you know, I brought my parents when they were visiting and my parents obviously the, my, I grew up in New Jersey so my parents have never been in a legal weed store and my mom wanted to walk around. I mean she wanted to actually see what was behind all the shelves and ask questions and they were great about answering questions. But aside from that, they want you to stay in your lane, order what you want, pay and leave so that they can move the line along. It's how you have to operate when you have 2,500 customers. But hopefully in a world where we have more like 500 stores, you know you can actually have a shopping experience as opposed to just walking in.
Ann Marie Awad:
Sometimes I go to the dispensary in my neighborhood and I'm the only person there.
Felicia Gans:
That sounds so nice.
Ann Marie Awad:
That's why they let me bring my dog inside.
Dan Adams:
The funny thing is though that all these sort of negative neighborhood impacts that are happening around the small handful of stores that we do have, we should note those problems are basically just a result of the scarcity of marijuana stores. But what's funny is that those problems, and we pointed this out in the story, those problems are being used to argue for a further scarcity of marijuana stores, right? Like neighbors of other proposed facilities are sort of weaponizing what's happening at the few that are open where it is kind of a mess. It does kind of suck. You wouldn't want to live next to it and they're saying that that's what's going to happen here.
Ann Marie Awad:
These two stores. They really make my life hard. So I want zero stores.
Ann Marie Awad:
All right y'all. That is all we have time for tonight. Thank you so much for coming. Please give the Boston Globe reporters one more hand. They are so great.
Naomi Martin:
Thank you for having us.
Ann Marie Awad:
This has been the very first live bonus episode of On Something. Thanks to the Boston Globe cannabis team. That again is Dan Adams, Naomi Martin and Felicia Gans. You can follow their coverage at bostonglobe.com. And this episode was recorded at the Comedy Factory in Boston, Massachusetts. Thanks so much for having us and thank you for the production help And new episodes of on something are coming your way soon. We promise we'll be back in a few weeks with a preview of season two so make sure that you are subscribed and keep an eye on your feed. In the meantime, if you want to keep up with me, you can subscribe to the On Something newsletter at onsomething.org. On Something is a labor of love reported and written by Brad Turner and myself, produced and mixed by Brad Turner and Rebecca Romberg. Our editor is Curtis Fox music by Brad Turner and Daniel Mescher. Our executive producers are Rachel Estabrook and Kevin Dale. On Something is made possible by lots and lots of talented people like Francie Swindler, Kim Nguyen, Dave Burdick, Alison Borden, Matt Herz, Iris Gottlieb and Kendall Smith. This program is made possible in part by the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, a private corporation funded by the American people. This podcast is also made possible by Colorado Public Radio members learn about supporting Colorado Public Radio at CPR.org.
